Comments on: Code Corner - Ask a Question http://www.hbagta.com/newsroom/2008/05/02/code-corner-ask-a-question/ Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:45:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Paul Huntoon http://www.hbagta.com/newsroom/2008/05/02/code-corner-ask-a-question/#comment-185 Paul Huntoon Tue, 13 May 2008 14:37:34 +0000 http://www.hbagta.com/newsroom/2008/03/14/code-corner-ask-a-question/#comment-185 I have a question regarding the changes to the Residential Builder exam. I had checked PSI exams to verify that if I fill out the appropriate applications the first week of this month then I would be able to register for an exam date after the 10 days of mailing the application. Well the 10 days are up and I see no available dates for exams. I know that as of June 1st the 60 hours will be required. Is this something I missed? Since I didn't get a test date then I am now required to do the 60 hours? If I am required this 60 hours where are these courses available at, how do I register, and what is it going to cost? A. Yes, you will (currently) be required to complete the 60 hours. The act of applying to PSI for testing does not stop the clock. The prelicensure education may be offered by a high school, intermediate school district, community college, university, bureau of construction codes, Michigan occupational safety and health administration, trade association, or a proprietary school licensed by the department. Only Builders Education Services and Training of Michigan, Inc. (BEST), a non-profit MAHB subsidiary, is currently licensedand approved to provide this education. Cost of classes will vary depending on the provider. Only the NAHB University of Housing classes are currently approved. BEST is in the process of developing a lower cost alternative. More information will be available by June 1st at <a href="http://www.bestofmi.org" rel="nofollow"><u><b>www.bestofmi.org</b></u></a>. I have a question regarding the changes to the Residential Builder exam. I had checked PSI exams to verify that if I fill out the appropriate applications the first week of this month then I would be able to register for an exam date after the 10 days of mailing the application. Well the 10 days are up and I see no available dates for exams. I know that as of June 1st the 60 hours will be required. Is this something I missed? Since I didn't get a test date then I am now required to do the 60 hours? If I am required this 60 hours where are these courses available at, how do I register, and what is it going to cost?

A. Yes, you will (currently) be required to complete the 60 hours. The act of applying to PSI for testing does not stop the clock. The prelicensure education may be offered by a high school, intermediate school district, community college, university, bureau of construction codes, Michigan occupational safety and health administration, trade association, or a proprietary school licensed by the department. Only Builders Education Services and Training of Michigan, Inc. (BEST), a non-profit MAHB subsidiary, is currently licensedand approved to provide this education. Cost of classes will vary depending on the provider. Only the NAHB University of Housing classes are currently approved. BEST is in the process of developing a lower cost alternative. More information will be available by June 1st at http://www.bestofmi.org.

]]> By: Amy Nagy http://www.hbagta.com/newsroom/2008/05/02/code-corner-ask-a-question/#comment-181 Amy Nagy Thu, 01 May 2008 18:34:13 +0000 http://www.hbagta.com/newsroom/2008/03/14/code-corner-ask-a-question/#comment-181 Q: If a licensed builder uses sub-contracted carpentry labor, must those subs be licensed as well? It appears in reading Article 339.2403e that they do not, however the hotline says they do. A: Definitely maybe. It depends on the scope of the sub-contractors business. <em><B>339.601 Practicing regulated occupation … person not licensed as residential builder or residential maintenance and alteration contractor; …</b> Sec. 601. (1) A person shall not engage in or attempt to engage in the practice of an occupation regulated under this act or use a title designated in this act unless the person possesses a license or registration issued by the department for the occupation. <B>339.2403 Engaging in business or acting in capacity of residential builder or residential maintenance and alteration contractor or salesperson without license.</B> Sec. 2403. Notwithstanding article 6, a person may engage in the business of or act in the capacity of a residential builder or a residential maintenance and alteration contractor or salesperson in this state without having a license, if the person is 1 of the following: (e) A person other than the salesperson who engages <b>SOLELY</b> in the business of performing work and services under contract with a residential builder or a residential maintenance and alteration contractor licensed under this article. [Emphasis added] </em> The carpentry sub-contractor must, at a minimum, be licensed as a residential maintenance and alteration (M&A) contractor with the carpentry (A) endorsement if the he/she performs work and services for the general public. Exception (e) above only applies when the sub-contractor performs work and services exclusively for other licensed residential builders and M&A contractors. Further, <em><B>339.2411 …conduct subject to penalty; suspension or revocation of license...</B> Sec. 2411 (2) A licensee or applicant who commits 1 or more of the following shall be subject to the penalties set forth in article 6: (j) Aiding or abetting an unlicensed person to evade this article, or knowingly combining or conspiring with, or acting as agent, partner, or associate for an unlicensed person, or allowing one's license to be used by an unlicensed person, or acting as or being an ostensible licensed residential builder or licensed residential maintenance and alteration contractor for an undisclosed person who does or shall control or direct, or who may have the right to control or direct, directly or indirectly, the operations of a licensee.</em> Roger Q: If a licensed builder uses sub-contracted carpentry labor, must those subs be licensed as well? It appears in reading Article 339.2403e that they do not, however the hotline says they do.

A: Definitely maybe. It depends on the scope of the sub-contractors business.

339.601 Practicing regulated occupation … person not licensed as residential builder or residential maintenance and alteration contractor; …

Sec. 601. (1) A person shall not engage in or attempt to engage in the practice of an occupation regulated under this act or use a title designated in this act unless the person possesses a license or registration issued by the department for the occupation.

339.2403 Engaging in business or acting in capacity of residential builder or residential maintenance and alteration contractor or salesperson without license.
Sec. 2403. Notwithstanding article 6, a person may engage in the business of or act in the capacity of a residential builder or a residential maintenance and alteration contractor or salesperson in this state without having a license, if the person is 1 of the following:
(e) A person other than the salesperson who engages SOLELY in the business of performing work and services under contract with a residential builder or a residential maintenance and alteration contractor licensed under this article. [Emphasis added]

The carpentry sub-contractor must, at a minimum, be licensed as a residential maintenance and alteration (M&A) contractor with the carpentry (A) endorsement if the he/she performs work and services for the general public. Exception (e) above only applies when the sub-contractor performs work and services exclusively for other licensed residential builders and M&A contractors.

Further,
339.2411 …conduct subject to penalty; suspension or revocation of license…
Sec. 2411 (2) A licensee or applicant who commits 1 or more of the following shall be subject to the penalties set forth in article 6:
(j) Aiding or abetting an unlicensed person to evade this article, or knowingly combining or conspiring with, or acting as agent, partner, or associate for an unlicensed person, or allowing one's license to be used by an unlicensed person, or acting as or being an ostensible licensed residential builder or licensed residential maintenance and alteration contractor for an undisclosed person who does or shall control or direct, or who may have the right to control or direct, directly or indirectly, the operations of a licensee.
Roger

]]> By: Jenny http://www.hbagta.com/newsroom/2008/05/02/code-corner-ask-a-question/#comment-170 Jenny Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:40:28 +0000 http://www.hbagta.com/newsroom/2008/03/14/code-corner-ask-a-question/#comment-170 Q: For a Corporate license with a QO plus a QO individual license - will the education requirement apply to both of the licenses? A: The Bureau of Commercial Services and Corporations has not begun to write the rules for continuing competency and will not until late 2008 or early 2009. The Bureau Director has advised his staff not to respond to my questions in writing stating that “… your questions are legal interpretations and some are hypothetical in nature…” The Bureau has agreed to work with MAHB on needed statutory or rule amendments for “clarification” of our issues. That having been said, since all “entity” Qualifying Officer (Q.O.) licenses are tied back to the individual licensee, only the individual licensee should have to comply with the educational requirements. Q: For a Corporate license with a QO plus a QO individual license - will the education requirement apply to both of the licenses?

A: The Bureau of Commercial Services and Corporations has not begun to write the rules for continuing competency and will not until late 2008 or early 2009. The Bureau Director has advised his staff not to respond to my questions in writing stating that “… your questions are legal interpretations and some are hypothetical in nature…” The Bureau has agreed to work with MAHB on needed statutory or rule amendments for “clarification” of our issues.
That having been said, since all “entity” Qualifying Officer (Q.O.) licenses are tied back to the individual licensee, only the individual licensee should have to comply with the educational requirements.

]]> By: Roger http://www.hbagta.com/newsroom/2008/05/02/code-corner-ask-a-question/#comment-169 Roger Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:03:50 +0000 http://www.hbagta.com/newsroom/2008/03/14/code-corner-ask-a-question/#comment-169 Q. If an employee has an individual builder's license but is not the qualifying officer - do they require a sales license to meet with clients? A. A “Salesperson” means an employee or agent, other than a qualifying officer, of a licensed residential builder or residential maintenance and alteration contractor, who for a salary, wage, fee, percentage, commission, or other consideration, sells or attempts to sell, negotiates or attempts to negotiate, solicits for or attempts to solicit for, obtains or attempts to obtain a contract or commitment for, or furnishes or attempts or agrees to furnish, the goods and services of a residential builder or residential maintenance and alteration contractor, except a person working for a licensed residential builder or residential maintenance and alteration contractor who makes sales which are occasional and incidental to the person's principal employment. What is the employee’s principle function in the company? Why is the employee meeting with the client? Is this “occasional and incidental” to the employees principle function? If the purpose of the meeting is to sell or attempt to sell and if this is the employees’ principle function then, yes, a Salesperson license is required. Q. Also, would an individual who holds a builders license, is not the qualifying officer but has a percentage of ownership of an LLC be required to have a sales license? A. Yes. Only qualifying officers (Q.O.) or licensed salespersons may sell or attempt to sell the services of a licensed builder entity. The individual in question could be listed as an additional Q.O. or must be licensed as a salesperson. An individual who is currently licensed as a builder or M&A contractor (or who has been actively licensed in the past 3 years) can be licensed as a salesperson in the employ of another builder or M&A contractor (employee or independent contractor) without taking the salesperson's examination. (An individual may have only one license as a salesperson.) Q. If an employee has an individual builder's license but is not the qualifying officer - do they require a sales license to meet with clients?
A. A “Salesperson” means an employee or agent, other than a qualifying officer, of a licensed residential builder or residential maintenance and alteration contractor, who for a salary, wage, fee, percentage, commission, or other consideration, sells or attempts to sell, negotiates or attempts to negotiate, solicits for or attempts to solicit for, obtains or attempts to obtain a contract or commitment for, or furnishes or attempts or agrees to furnish, the goods and services of a residential builder or residential maintenance and alteration contractor, except a person working for a licensed residential builder or residential maintenance and alteration contractor who makes sales which are occasional and incidental to the person's principal employment.

What is the employee’s principle function in the company? Why is the employee meeting with the client? Is this “occasional and incidental” to the employees principle function?
If the purpose of the meeting is to sell or attempt to sell and if this is the employees’ principle function then, yes, a Salesperson license is required.

Q. Also, would an individual who holds a builders license, is not the qualifying officer but has a percentage of ownership of an LLC be required to have a sales license?

A. Yes. Only qualifying officers (Q.O.) or licensed salespersons may sell or attempt to sell the services of a licensed builder entity. The individual in question could be listed as an additional Q.O. or must be licensed as a salesperson.
An individual who is currently licensed as a builder or M&A contractor (or who has been actively licensed in the past 3 years) can be licensed as a salesperson in the employ of another builder or M&A contractor (employee or independent contractor) without taking the salesperson's examination. (An individual may have only one license as a salesperson.)

]]> By: Nancy Lisabeth http://www.hbagta.com/newsroom/2008/05/02/code-corner-ask-a-question/#comment-168 Nancy Lisabeth Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:47:20 +0000 http://www.hbagta.com/newsroom/2008/03/14/code-corner-ask-a-question/#comment-168 If an employee has an individual builder's license but is not the qualifying officer - do they require a sales license to meet with clients? Also, would an individual who holds a builders license, is not the qualifying officer but has a percentage of ownership of an LLC be required to have a sales license? If an employee has an individual builder's license but is not the qualifying officer - do they require a sales license to meet with clients?

Also, would an individual who holds a builders license, is not the qualifying officer but has a percentage of ownership of an LLC be required to have a sales license?

]]> By: Jenny http://www.hbagta.com/newsroom/2008/05/02/code-corner-ask-a-question/#comment-165 Jenny Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:18:33 +0000 http://www.hbagta.com/newsroom/2008/03/14/code-corner-ask-a-question/#comment-165 Q: If a mechanical contractor has a sales person work for him that exclusively sells his products/services, does that person need a salesperson's license? A: The answer is NO. The licensed salesperson only applies to employees of/and Builders and M & A contractors licensed under Article 24 of PA299 of 1980 - Occupational Code. Mechanical Contractors are licensed under PA192 of 1984 - Forbes Mechanical Contractors Act. Plumbers are licensed under PA 733 of 2002 - State Plumbing Act and Electrical Contractors are licensed under Act 217 of 1956 - Electrical Administrative Act. Q: If a mechanical contractor has a sales person work for him that exclusively sells his products/services, does that person need a salesperson's license?

A: The answer is NO. The licensed salesperson only applies to employees of/and Builders and M & A contractors licensed under Article 24 of PA299 of 1980 - Occupational Code. Mechanical Contractors are licensed under PA192 of 1984 - Forbes Mechanical Contractors Act. Plumbers are licensed under PA 733 of 2002 - State Plumbing Act and Electrical Contractors are licensed under Act 217 of 1956 - Electrical Administrative Act.

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